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Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
+3
Anaphiel Hidemori
Damon
Akabayashi Terumi
7 posters
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Haru HyuugaCitizen
Ryo : 0
Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:33 pm
Alright kids, let’s settle down. I’ll take these points one at a time.
1. The Distance Discussion
“by default I assume whatever is given radius that it's a sphere or at least a dome, unless it actually specifies shape, cause otherwise they should provide height”
That one’s from Yousei, I’ll defer to his judgement.
2. The Kunai Conundrum
There are faults on both sides of this argument, methinks. Damon, impact force of a kunai is equal to the speed at which it travels. Imagine it like a bullet, flying forward really fast. It’s not particularly sharp, but it’s moving fast enough to punch through you all the same.
As for the kunai forcing the wolf to desummon, just off the top of my head I calculate them being equivalent to roughly 01905% of the wolf’s body mass, so I think I’m in agreement that an attack like that is basically a bee sting, definitely not enough to desummon him. As for you aiming at vital organs, you specifically noted that you didn’t do enough damage to kill, so the worst damage that wolfie takes is a bee sting to the throat. It probably smarts, but it’s not gonna kill him or even incap him, by your own admission. Damon had the full right to vague where the kunai hit since you were not specific.
3. The Mist Connection
The Hidden Mist tech doesn’t have a health stat, so fanning it away is ineffective.
I think that’s everything, let me know if I’ve missed something.
On an OOC note, Kotetsu, I’m a little disappointed in how you’ve handled this. As far as I can tell, Damon has been forthcoming and flexible, while you’ve been hostile and condescending at best. Manners cost nothing, and getting upset about a disagreement in a game where you are literally pretending to be a ninja fighting a giant wolf does not reflect well on you. We expect you to be more civil in the future when the need arises for OOC discussion in topics like these.
In addition, you called for a battlemod without giving your opponent a chance for a rebuttal, or even attempting to discuss things beyond the superficial details. For future reference, a battlemod is only to be called if an agreement cannot be reached between the two parties. We should be your last resort, not the first thing you fall to when you disagree with someone.
1. The Distance Discussion
“by default I assume whatever is given radius that it's a sphere or at least a dome, unless it actually specifies shape, cause otherwise they should provide height”
That one’s from Yousei, I’ll defer to his judgement.
2. The Kunai Conundrum
There are faults on both sides of this argument, methinks. Damon, impact force of a kunai is equal to the speed at which it travels. Imagine it like a bullet, flying forward really fast. It’s not particularly sharp, but it’s moving fast enough to punch through you all the same.
As for the kunai forcing the wolf to desummon, just off the top of my head I calculate them being equivalent to roughly 01905% of the wolf’s body mass, so I think I’m in agreement that an attack like that is basically a bee sting, definitely not enough to desummon him. As for you aiming at vital organs, you specifically noted that you didn’t do enough damage to kill, so the worst damage that wolfie takes is a bee sting to the throat. It probably smarts, but it’s not gonna kill him or even incap him, by your own admission. Damon had the full right to vague where the kunai hit since you were not specific.
3. The Mist Connection
The Hidden Mist tech doesn’t have a health stat, so fanning it away is ineffective.
I think that’s everything, let me know if I’ve missed something.
On an OOC note, Kotetsu, I’m a little disappointed in how you’ve handled this. As far as I can tell, Damon has been forthcoming and flexible, while you’ve been hostile and condescending at best. Manners cost nothing, and getting upset about a disagreement in a game where you are literally pretending to be a ninja fighting a giant wolf does not reflect well on you. We expect you to be more civil in the future when the need arises for OOC discussion in topics like these.
In addition, you called for a battlemod without giving your opponent a chance for a rebuttal, or even attempting to discuss things beyond the superficial details. For future reference, a battlemod is only to be called if an agreement cannot be reached between the two parties. We should be your last resort, not the first thing you fall to when you disagree with someone.
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Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:13 pm
The mist stays, he can tell where Damon is through it. And yeah, I was talking to Ris about it last night, he did well explaining it, that was my bad. Aside from that, my post remains as is, with the wolf dropping its weight down on Kotetsu, and unless he can do anything to counter that, claiming victory in the match.
EDIT: To clarify, Kotetsu did not say how he was running underneath Akio, so once again, I had to fill in the blanks. He ran underneath the front of the dog, which is 40 meters, so when Akio slams down, he's still underneath it, regardless of whether or not he was moving.
EDIT: To clarify, Kotetsu did not say how he was running underneath Akio, so once again, I had to fill in the blanks. He ran underneath the front of the dog, which is 40 meters, so when Akio slams down, he's still underneath it, regardless of whether or not he was moving.
Anaphiel HidemoriCitizen- Stat Page : Stat Page
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Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:08 pm
OOC: I'm sorry you feel disappointed in my handling of this situation Haru. I fail to see how I'm being condescending, I pointed out where I had issues with his claims and didn't belittle him for it. No offence meant to Damon here, but there has been very little in anything related to full disclosure or being forthcoming in any way shape or form. If there was an issue with anything I'd written, being brought up in his post is the first I'm hearing of it. I'd received no requests in any method of contact to clarify anything. I'm under the impression that means he would be trying to tweak things in his favour (which I understand, but it's incredibly underhanded when you're supposed to give someone the opportunity to clarify or elaborate before you just take their words and interpret them for yourself (unless it was already detailed in a way that is above mis-interpretation).
As for issues, we're still missing the fact that since I do know where Damon was standing, he didn't react to the kunai passing through Akio to hit him. He's more than welcome to edit that in. On top of that, the kunai (all three of them) would have travelled completely through the wolf. There's no reason as to why your wolf would have crouched down at that point, but you're more than welcome to edit in a reason for the third kunai to miss.
I also said I was moving away from his paws, that would be all of them as I didn't specify one paw in particular that I was avoiding. That means I would be moving to one side of Akio, not along his length. To my knowledge though, if you were unsure as to how I moved, my first thought would be to ask me for clarification instead of filling in the blanks.
As for issues, we're still missing the fact that since I do know where Damon was standing, he didn't react to the kunai passing through Akio to hit him. He's more than welcome to edit that in. On top of that, the kunai (all three of them) would have travelled completely through the wolf. There's no reason as to why your wolf would have crouched down at that point, but you're more than welcome to edit in a reason for the third kunai to miss.
I also said I was moving away from his paws, that would be all of them as I didn't specify one paw in particular that I was avoiding. That means I would be moving to one side of Akio, not along his length. To my knowledge though, if you were unsure as to how I moved, my first thought would be to ask me for clarification instead of filling in the blanks.
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Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:01 pm
Kotetsu wrote:As for issues, we're still missing the fact that since I do know where Damon was standing, he didn't react to the kunai passing through Akio to hit him. He's more than welcome to edit that in. On top of that, the kunai (all three of them) would have travelled completely through the wolf. There's no reason as to why your wolf would have crouched down at that point, but you're more than welcome to edit in a reason for the third kunai to miss.
I also said I was moving away from his paws, that would be all of them as I didn't specify one paw in particular that I was avoiding. That means I would be moving to one side of Akio, not along his length. To my knowledge though, if you were unsure as to how I moved, my first thought would be to ask me for clarification instead of filling in the blanks.
Like Nick said, "As for the kunai forcing the wolf to desummon, just off the top of my head I calculate them being equivalent to roughly 01905% of the wolf’s body mass, so I think I’m in agreement that an attack like that is basically a bee sting" A bee sting isn't going to go through his entire body, so I don't feel like I have to edit that at all. Idk why I have to get into the mannerisms of a wolf or really most dogs, but in fights you can see em crouching a lot. Helps pounce, etc etc. Basic anatomy is why the 3rd misses, since his throat isn’t able to be seen from your position under his body.
As for the next bit, this is again about positioning and logic. “As soon as Kotetsu was under the wolf, Kotetsu aimed the disc upwards and moved his hand to release the projectiles up at the wolf's underside.” If you’re trying to throw a kunai through the body and towards Damon’s foot, while also saying you’re aiming for the chest, there’s nowhere to the side where you can have an angle that makes any sense, especially since you stated it was upwards and point blank, meaning that you would have to be under the target, right? Based on your phrasing, that’s how I interpreted it, at least. You can’t simultaneously move away from the wolf while also attacking it point blank, since “At almost point blank range and with no way to detect that the weapons were fired”. You made it abundantly clear that you were going for the attack, so I reacted to how that would need to play out. I feel like you aren’t taking the size into account, maybe mixing up meters and feet, which is understandable, but it doesn’t change that you ran underneath a giant dog and tried attacking its underbelly. I’d really hate if we needed to bring Nick back here to determine this for us once more, but I’m claiming the win still.
- Anaphiel HidemoriCitizen
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Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:53 pm
Bee sting in terms of relative size. The weapon has more than enough power and sharpness behind it to travel all the way through the wolf, and therefore into your foot (as I described one of the kunai being aimed for).
People do have the ability to attack while on the move, and I clearly noted that I led my weapons to compensate for my continued movement. Where I'm at doesn't really matter since the weapons will travel through the wolf's body regardless of where they hit, since the internal organs and other aspects of the human (or animal in this case) body don't actually have a health stat, meaning there's nothing that would affect it's movement through the body to the other side.
I'm also well aware of the difference between meters and feet, but that doesn't really matter in this case as I've already moved out of the way of your summon's slam by the time you're even partway down.
People do have the ability to attack while on the move, and I clearly noted that I led my weapons to compensate for my continued movement. Where I'm at doesn't really matter since the weapons will travel through the wolf's body regardless of where they hit, since the internal organs and other aspects of the human (or animal in this case) body don't actually have a health stat, meaning there's nothing that would affect it's movement through the body to the other side.
I'm also well aware of the difference between meters and feet, but that doesn't really matter in this case as I've already moved out of the way of your summon's slam by the time you're even partway down.
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Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:38 pm
Once again, I never said you stopped moving. I imagined the scenario differently based on your phrasing, and my idea of how it played out aligns with that of the mod, whom you requested. It's clear you're mischaracterizing what you wrote as if everybody is in agreement with a single interpretation of what you wrote.
And again, the battlemod ruled that they were like bee stings, so I don't know why you're arguing with the result of a ruling that you called for. Again, for reference, "As for the kunai forcing the wolf to desummon, just off the top of my head I calculate them being equivalent to roughly 01905% of the wolf’s body mass, so I think I’m in agreement that an attack like that is basically a bee sting"
And again, the battlemod ruled that they were like bee stings, so I don't know why you're arguing with the result of a ruling that you called for. Again, for reference, "As for the kunai forcing the wolf to desummon, just off the top of my head I calculate them being equivalent to roughly 01905% of the wolf’s body mass, so I think I’m in agreement that an attack like that is basically a bee sting"
- Anaphiel HidemoriCitizen
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Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:11 pm
Actually no, it does not, because he didn't rule on the direction I was traveling. That still doesn't give you the option to decide to manipulate what I said I did without asking me for clarification just because you feel that it suits you differently.
Bee stings in terms of how much damage they would have done, that doesn't negate the fact that the force behind the weapon and the sharpness of the kunai that were thrown would have sufficiently been able to penetrate and travel all the way through your summon. Sure they won't cause him to disappear, but they'll still travel through him, and one of them will hit you unless you have a way to detect it before it reaches you.
Bee stings in terms of how much damage they would have done, that doesn't negate the fact that the force behind the weapon and the sharpness of the kunai that were thrown would have sufficiently been able to penetrate and travel all the way through your summon. Sure they won't cause him to disappear, but they'll still travel through him, and one of them will hit you unless you have a way to detect it before it reaches you.
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Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:25 am
Kotetsu wrote:That still doesn't give you the option to decide to manipulate what I said I did without asking me for clarification just because you feel that it suits you differently.
V6 Thread and RP Rules Says:
Vague Manipulation:
This is where you are allowed to put your own detail into someones post, if they do not have it in themselves. Only small uses of this is allowed, such uses must have a within reason outcome, information that is important must be edited in by the player whom is missing it. Such allowed uses of Vague Manipulation are as followed;
*Bob punches Fred*
Due to not listing which fist hit Fred, or where the target of impact is, Fred can within reason say that it was his left hand, and the attack was aimed at his stomach.
If someone does not detail out their entire form, you cannot use this to change what they look like, or show up to a battle naked, such uses are considered trolling.
This is my last OoC post, if you feel that strongly about it, then feel free to try for another round with a battlemod.
- Haru HyuugaCitizen
- Ryo : 0
Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:06 am
Skipping Kotetsu, I know, I just got done telling y'all not to call a battlemod before you settle it yourself, but a key part of this argument hinges on my own failure to communicate, so forgive me if I feel a bit of responsibility for it.
I suppose I should have clarified what a “Bee sting” was.
I used the analogy to indicate the level of damage caused, but the kunai is still passing cleanly through the wolf. Damon will of course be allowed to react accordingly, if such a thing becomes relevant to him.
This is exactly how vague manip works, actually. With details that are left unspecified and unclear, the opponent is allowed to interpret it as they like.
After reading it over, I’ve determined that Damon was well within his bounds to vague the direction you were running under the wolf.
This particular justification is coming dangerously close to code. I don’t think you meant to do so, but if detail is meant to be inferred beyond the obvious, it’s usually best to say exactly what you’re doing.
Settle down boi. It’s not a leap of logic that Kotetsu is able to infer where the throat is, or just throw the kunai as he runs under it.
As for the thing about the kunai passing through and hitting Damon, I'm not seeing how that's possible, given the positioning. Not only that, you didn't specify aiming to hit him through the wolf on the post you threw the kunai, which again, is inching towards code, but also Damon simply not declaring he was hit is enough to vague your kunai into NOT hitting him in that particular instance. Feel free to dispute if you feel I've missed something.
This argument is becoming pretty jumbled, but I think I’ve addressed the two major issues. If we need to discuss this further, contact me.
Let’s try to keep the bickering to a minimum and focus on solving the problem of who needs to edit. We’re all here to have fun pretending to be ninjas, there’s no need to take it so seriously.
I suppose I should have clarified what a “Bee sting” was.
I used the analogy to indicate the level of damage caused, but the kunai is still passing cleanly through the wolf. Damon will of course be allowed to react accordingly, if such a thing becomes relevant to him.
Kotetsu wrote:To my knowledge though, if you were unsure as to how I moved, my first thought would be to ask me for clarification instead of filling in the blanks.
This is exactly how vague manip works, actually. With details that are left unspecified and unclear, the opponent is allowed to interpret it as they like.
Vague Manipulation Rules wrote:Vague Manipulation:
This is where you are allowed to put your own detail into someones post, if they do not have it in themselves. Only small uses of this is allowed, such uses must have a within reason outcome, information that is important must be edited in by the player whom is missing it. Such allowed uses of Vague Manipulation are as followed;
*Bob punches Fred*
Due to not listing which fist hit Fred, or where the target of impact is, Fred can within reason say that it was his left hand, and the attack was aimed at his stomach.
If someone does not detail out their entire form, you cannot use this to change what they look like, or show up to a battle naked, such uses are considered trolling.
After reading it over, I’ve determined that Damon was well within his bounds to vague the direction you were running under the wolf.
Kotetsu wrote:I also said I was moving away from his paws, that would be all of them as I didn't specify one paw in particular that I was avoiding.
This particular justification is coming dangerously close to code. I don’t think you meant to do so, but if detail is meant to be inferred beyond the obvious, it’s usually best to say exactly what you’re doing.
Komon wrote:Idk why I have to get into the mannerisms of a wolf or really most dogs, but in fights you can see em crouching a lot. Helps pounce, etc etc. Basic anatomy is why the 3rd misses, since his throat isn’t able to be seen from your position under his body.
Settle down boi. It’s not a leap of logic that Kotetsu is able to infer where the throat is, or just throw the kunai as he runs under it.
As for the thing about the kunai passing through and hitting Damon, I'm not seeing how that's possible, given the positioning. Not only that, you didn't specify aiming to hit him through the wolf on the post you threw the kunai, which again, is inching towards code, but also Damon simply not declaring he was hit is enough to vague your kunai into NOT hitting him in that particular instance. Feel free to dispute if you feel I've missed something.
This argument is becoming pretty jumbled, but I think I’ve addressed the two major issues. If we need to discuss this further, contact me.
Let’s try to keep the bickering to a minimum and focus on solving the problem of who needs to edit. We’re all here to have fun pretending to be ninjas, there’s no need to take it so seriously.
- Anaphiel HidemoriCitizen
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Clan Specialty : Sensory
Village : Kumogakure
Ryo : 42750
Re: Chuunin Semi-finals: Kotetsu vs. Damon
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:01 am
Just to clarify Haru, I did specify in that post that one had been aimed at Damon, specifically his foot. I can see him because hes inside the dome created by my hidden mist, also because of my mist sonar skill, which allows me to imbue my passive sensor into water style AOEs.
As for the whole vague manipulation I still feel like for stuff like this Ive heard of people that were told to give opponents the opportunity to clarify or edit their post when trying to claim an autohit. But hey, if thats not the case I'll defer to your judgement.
Still claiming the hit on Damon via kunai if you cant reasonably come up with a way to avoid it.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I took a look at Hoshi's defenses, and we have seals in place to prevent Teleportation techs from being used by those that dont have the password. That would include Summoning techs too, which makes the summoning of the wolf invalid (and voidable).
As for the whole vague manipulation I still feel like for stuff like this Ive heard of people that were told to give opponents the opportunity to clarify or edit their post when trying to claim an autohit. But hey, if thats not the case I'll defer to your judgement.
Still claiming the hit on Damon via kunai if you cant reasonably come up with a way to avoid it.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I took a look at Hoshi's defenses, and we have seals in place to prevent Teleportation techs from being used by those that dont have the password. That would include Summoning techs too, which makes the summoning of the wolf invalid (and voidable).
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