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 The Last Puppet

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Calin Yuki
Missing-Nin A
Missing-Nin A
Calin Yuki

Fame : 219
Home Village :
  • Star

Element(s) : Water, Wind, Earth
Clan : Yuki
Clan Element : Ice
Ryo : 21500
100%


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PostSubject: Re: The Last Puppet   The Last Puppet I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 29, 2018 7:51 am

Welcome to another episode of 'What Bloodline is It?' I'm your host, Valen Akari! 

Just Kidding

But seriously though, I see 6 abilities on a puppet that caps at 5. Let's fix that. 

Ability 1: As far as I know the ONLY precedent for this is in the form of a skill that only really allows it to happen because it's a mech puppet. Which means the puppeteer is in the nitty gritty too. Since they're INSIDE of it while the techniques are being used. I view this as an attempt to lolnope the only risk involved in those two specs. So that's going to be a no from me bud. 

Ability 2: Oh look, the Hozuki bloodline with Earth, and without the elemental disadvantage to boot. With the ability to fully regenerate the puppets limbs for the low low AP cost of 10 AP. Or the puppet itself for that matter. I don't really care if it IS made from Earth, if someone already managed to destroy your puppet with a physical attack, which is already difficult as hell because that involves getting close to the thing that moves faster in general than almost anyone in straight up movement (As long as your stat allocation wasn't done by a 5 year old) but they have to contend with the puppet abilities that do not require hand seals. Making it exceedingly difficult to destroy the things in general. Yet you want it it to be completely immune to physical damage effectively? Absolutely not. If you were to ask for a second opinion then the individual health of your joints would be the same as the rest of the puppet (65) I assume that 69 was a typo to be honest. 

The third ability: You want to bypass the stamina stat by making your puppet have AP and split AP costs with you? That's not happening. Not only that, but it's three abilities in one. A battery, a booster, and an explosion. IF you were to ask for a second opinion on this, you would still need hard A rank numbers, and an proper upkeep. Upkeep costs are half initial. So for a 40 initial drop it's 20 upkeep a post. 

The barrier: Checks out, good, standard shit. However, add in where the barrier originates from.

The escape pod, you need some numbers here pal. How fast does the puppets encasing do it's thing? I assume it has some kind of build in impact dampeners to prevent you from dying the moment the pod crashes into something? You might wanna slide that into lest you be vagued into a sad suicide. But you say it launches at the combination or your speed and chakra stat? As per Body Flicker rules? That's not going to be alright. We like flat numbers here, this is an A rank puppet, so the best you're gonna get is 60 scaling. The AP cost needs to be adjusted too, A rank ability, A rank costs. If you do 60 scaling, it'll be 45 AP as per standard. 

The Hybrid Cannon: An interesting technique, I'm getting random visualization of Mu La Flaga's Gun Barrels from Gundam Seed. 

'The physical projectile is made from enough physical elements that it is not blocked or hindered in any way by anything that would hinder/block chakra.'


You mean if a chakra barrier stats anything that impacts it it reduces the force by the power, etc? No, the only way you could bypass a chakra barrier is with piercing which just involves ignoring the jutsu health rules. I can't think of a single example of a defensive ability that ONLY blocks chakra. If you know of one, feel free to point it out. 


Again with the hard numbers. You have an A rank puppet, it get's A rank level abilities. That means 50 or 60. Do not base it off sharpness of your puppet, because that would be silly. 'Lol lemme buff my puppet sharpness and make my A rank level ability an S rank one.' No. 

'30 Chakra' Typo fix Pl0x, as well an AP fix, if you go 60 as before it's gonna cost ya 45 AP a shot. 

This needs a CD too. 

Bump when ready.
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Calin Yuki
Missing-Nin A
Missing-Nin A
Calin Yuki

Fame : 219
Home Village :
  • Star

Element(s) : Water, Wind, Earth
Clan : Yuki
Clan Element : Ice
Ryo : 21500
100%


The Last Puppet Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Last Puppet   The Last Puppet I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 30, 2018 8:09 am

You remove the weaknesses of two entire specs with absolutely no drawbacks. The original version inherently put the user in danger as all Tai users and Weaponry users are when fighting. That's the only thing that makes the app balanced in my opinion. That's either going to need to be removed, or you're going to have to request a second opinion. 

With your second ability, you took it from an app that was from 2014, the start of V6. A good number of these apps aren't really balanced any longer, and weren't really to begin with honestly. They simply weren't archived because they're still a part of V6 and no one really looked closely at them. I'll have someone move it, but being able to be immune to physical force isn't going to be a thing. 

Different apps are balanced differently. Item apps, weapons, armor, puppets, jutsu, all have their things that would work for them or and not. Sure, being able to channel chakra into a mask you constantly wear to regenerate the material is doable. Mainly because the mask itself tends to be fairly harmless. Being able to channel chakra into your puppet to do the same is completely different. You get to pop your puppet back together over and over with no issue and what does it cost you? AP? AP cost isn't a feasible drawback. Regenerating a puppet in combat, isn't happening without some kind of separate ability to do so. Like the skill the original creator of the mechanism I'll be going into below made to do so. Otherwise, if you're merely looking for a way to repair it out of combat in case it's ever damaged. You can easily say 'This puppet can repaired out of combat for 1000 words or something. You can also, always remake them. Unless it's some kind of super amazing badass CD puppet you got handed down to you by the gods. Nothing really stops you from building another one as far as I am aware (A full mod might object to that though..) 

The explosion is a drawback, and a good one. But it's one drawback that you have here is completely negated by the ability I just pointed out. It doesn't matter if you blow up your own puppet if you just regenerate it. Want to put the appropriate drawbacks? First off make it base chakra stat (Meaning it's cap won't increase when you use a booster, etc.) Then make it require you actually channel an ability that absorbs chakra. Like the original appers. Then remove the booster from it because at that point it gets an AP pool to draw from, a booster, and an explosion. The booster alone is generally it's own ability. Let alone the other two. 

Escape pod: This one is actually fine if you make the speed of the escape pod the users chakra stat. Which is the same as the originals. Body flicker speed is speed + chakra, which is not happening on a puppet when the users speed wouldn't even be used for this. However since you won't inherently be inside of the thing like the original creators you will either need to remove it's ability to 'encase what is in contact with it' and make it so you have to get inside of it (A suicidal thing in combat) or attach a speed stat to it's encasing you. This would be a max of 60, putting the cost for this tech  at 45.

So you're talking about using the interlocking pieces as 'ammunition' at this point? That's all well and good, but that would inherently be on that mechanism because it would legitimately just be a matter of 'pointing his finger at them and launching it' or something which would have it's sharpness. The problem, is that it's also a chakra cannon. Even with your core, you can't have that without it being it's own separate ability. 

For the record, I personally find that stupid rule about bringing up other apps ridiculous. Feel free to mention them to me if I'm modding something for you. For all you know it could actually be an issue that should never have been approved. I will however ask that you do so through PM. I'll also reiterate that I specified If 'I' am modding something for you. Another staff member might not like it. I however, prefer to go by the precedent set. Provided it's a precedent that doesn't need to be looked at again. 

I think I got everything.
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Rosalyn 'Rose' Uchiha
Genin of Konoha
Genin of Konoha
Rosalyn 'Rose' Uchiha

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The Last Puppet Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Last Puppet   The Last Puppet I_icon_minitimeTue May 01, 2018 9:34 am

Actually, if you want to get into the real technical aspects. Then your first mechanism isn't a mechanism at all. It's a skill. In what way does this particular puppet give you the ability to do this with it when it's you doing the work and drawing from a separate core of power? I'd rather see this as a skill in general. 

'ssoooooooo lets talk about updating the mechanics used from that app then? as they say in the army, is that too logical? while I agree that it is probably a bit too vague... the idea doesnt seem to me to be that it is immune to physical damage. It seems to me that its more like when your psp or phone falls and instead of the impact just destroying your device its pieces just go flying out... thus redistributing impact energy outward and both minimizing actual damage. the way I worded it implied that parts could still be destroyed... why would I need regeneration if things arent getting damage?'

For when you blow up your own puppet for starters, but that's irrelevant. It can not seem to you to not be immune to physical damage all you want. But that's how I'm reading it and that's why I'm not okay with it. If I smash this puppet with a 300 power hammer, you're just going to detach it, bring it back immediately, and it's like I never did any damage at all. Also, you want average of speed and strength AND scaling? Pick either a flat number with scaling, or the average of speed and strength. 


100 chakra storage is all you're getting. I'm not letting you invalidate the stamina stat and circumvent the recent rank up AP removal by shoving a puppet battery that caps at like 195 AP (The equivalent of almost 20 stamina) . Either limit the AP storage, or remove the mechanism. I don't really care which.

 
Regarding the escape hatch, take the body flicker equation at that point. I missed that wording on her version. 

The entire puppet can reshape into a cannon all it wants. In order to be able to fire the cannon it would have to be apped as it's own mechanism. It doesn't get to be some random sixth ability you put on. My recommendation? You're going to have to remove that first mechanism anyway. Make that one a cannon of some kind. 

Feel free to bump when ready and you're of course welcome to a second opinion.


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Calin Yuki
Missing-Nin A
Missing-Nin A
Calin Yuki

Fame : 219
Home Village :
  • Star

Element(s) : Water, Wind, Earth
Clan : Yuki
Clan Element : Ice
Ryo : 21500
100%


The Last Puppet Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Last Puppet   The Last Puppet I_icon_minitimeWed May 02, 2018 10:04 am

Alright, my headache medication is kicking in. Let's get started 

I am sorry, but that first ability is definitely a skill imo. The puppet isn't the one doing the work, you are. Which prevents it from being a mechanism in my eyes. 

The intent can be that you ferry konoha shinobi across the sea to visit kiri with each individual parts for all I care. The INTENT doesn't matter, the possible usage does. Boosters are abilities of their own. Especially puppet boosters because you can utilize it to buff the puppet while you're using another to buff your own stats. Effectively stacking them, I'm sorry but simply 'attaching it for balance' isn't going to cut it my friend. 

Now then...AP isn't really substat...and substats aren't double in most situations. You can't add 50 power to your tech from an item. Because you can only allocate 25 of that total of 50 to one substat. For balance purposes. But I digress, the amount of sub stats you an get from a normal active booster is 25. Total, as in you can have 15 power and 10 speed to jutsu if you want. You could do 25 power too. 

I'm confused as to where you're getting the numbers 250, and 100 from in your math. You tell me what the 25 and 10 are but I'm not seeing HOW you're getting to those last two. That might just me not really being awake anymore (yay work). 

Also, are you asking if you can make your tech DR? Also your mechanism is almost exactly like Hozuki because it allows it to lolnope physical damage all day long. Just like they do, and in a similar fashion, by essentially falling apart. Now, you could probably convince me to put a cap on the physical resistance. Since right now it's simply an uncapped ability to go 'Lol you hit me with 300 power with my 65 health but nothing happens'. Why not 200? So if someone manages to smack your puppet with over 200 power in physical damage, they effectively break the parts of the puppet BEFORE it can fall apart or something. Idk, like I said not awake anymore lol.
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Calin Yuki
Missing-Nin A
Missing-Nin A
Calin Yuki

Fame : 219
Home Village :
  • Star

Element(s) : Water, Wind, Earth
Clan : Yuki
Clan Element : Ice
Ryo : 21500
100%


The Last Puppet Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Last Puppet   The Last Puppet I_icon_minitimeWed May 02, 2018 1:55 pm

First, stop telling people 'they're wrong' I don't give a crap how much of our rules you think you've read and know but you've proven time and time again that you don't know anywhere close to what you think you do.  Grim's item buffs his chakra, and his puppet speed. It works in the same way as an item that would buff speed and reaction time. You can only put 25 points into a substat directly, but if that substat is totaled from a direct + or - from a main stat then buffing the main stat directly also buffs the substat. This only works in niche situations. Your speed item? Only one of them works, shocking I know. Want proof? Go look at anyone's stat page. Only three people have different +25 item buffs and they specifically have to state which one they're using in each thread without the ability to change it. Everyone else? Just +25 to one main stat and +25 to two different substats max. 

I don't really care if you're adamant about the mechanisms base purposes. Because I'm adamant about that being a skill. Your lack of an actual argument for it points to you acknowledging that your puppet does nothing in it of itself to cause that skill to be a thing, and what is a mechanism? A group or parts working together in something to make it happen. Your first ability is a skill. 

Honestly, I think the entire attempt to make your puppet just fall apart and build itself back up when a friggin DR shield does the same job, only better, as it allows storage device to work properly, etc is silly. You can literally make the puppet collapsible at the joints only without having that clause about damage immunity that simply doesn't make sense (Since your puppets parts are still physically there, and all). 

I don't really see why you're going into so much detail about math regarding this shit. I told you to cap the AP storage at 100. I don't really care about all of the math. Because it's completely unnecessary. You look at stamina and go 'Ha, I don't need that' So you can further try to break shit by applying your stats elsewhere, etc. It's my job to make sure you don't get to do that. So the limit is the preapproved cap from the base precedent. Period. 

And that booster? Doesn't balance it, it's you trying to shove in another mechanism so you can try to get as much crap by as possible. Remove it. 

Regardless of what your next slew of arguments where you condescendingly tell me that I'm wrong and you're right will include math wise. The BELOW edit requests, are in fact what I'm locked in on. To clarify, here's where I'm at. 

You do not get your first mechanism, edit it to something else. 

Your 'fall apart' mechanism needs a cap on physical damage it can take before it just breaks outright. To be honest, I dislike it even with that cap. Regardless, it also needs a speed of disassemble and reassembly. Also, just make it so that you can fully repair/regenerate/rebuild your puppet from the Earth around it for like 45 AP to match your speed. Then make ability only useable once per thread. Also say you cannot clone your puppet in this way. 

Change your batteries AP cap to 100 and remove the booster from the mechanism. 

Barrier: Fine

Escape Pod: Fine

That's it, either edit or not. Bump regardless.
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PostSubject: Re: The Last Puppet   The Last Puppet I_icon_minitime

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