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 Propose V7 Stat Rules

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Kobayashi Senshi <3
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PostSubject: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:40 pm

Ladies and Gentlemen of this amazing site, I appologize for the wait but what you shall read below is the proposed, I stress proposed, stat change rules for V7. These changes are not, allow me to say again not, set in stone. The purpose of this thread is for you, the member base, to have a say in what is going on with the site. Please post suggestions or questions you have about these possible changes so that any problem that can be found will be fixed. Also note that this is the first in a series of posts to show you what we have in mind for V7. We will be posting each new proposed changes every few days in order to work through everything with you all and keep as on track as possible. Without further ado, your staff's suggestion to Stat changes:


Stat Rules


Stats are broken down into four basic categories: Stamina, Strength, Dexterity and Chakra . These stats play many different roles, and are designed to represent a collection of different aspects your character possesses. Stats are trained over time, up to a maximum of 250 total stats. No stat can exceed 100 naturally. Stats can exceed 100 using other methods, explained below. Stats cannot be buffed above 300, regardless of what the math says.

Training stats requires 200 words of training each. This does not stack alongside other forms of training and must be done independently, in other words you have to choose if you want to train stats or something else. If you realize your stats aren’t allocated in the way that you like, you may retrain stats, however, it will cost you 100 words to untrain them, at which point, you may do the regular WC to train them and reallocate them as you please. 

Natural stats have a cap based on your rank, and cannot exceed this cap. Characters begin with half their natural cap of stats to divide among their stat fields as they see fit. Caps are displayed below: 

E rank: 50
D rank: 70
C rank: 100
B rank: 150
A rank: 200
S rank: 250

As mentioned previously, one's stats can be increased above their natural values. This is done through use of jutsu, but similarly it has its own caps as well. All combined active buffs to stats cannot exceed half of your rank's stat cap, this amount is labeled as the Boost Pool. Any amount that would exceed it simply does not count, but the effect of the ability that provides the buff may still work. Passive increases do not cap depending on your rank however and have a flat limit of 25 points for stat increases and another 25 for substats. Active increases to substats are limited at 50 and anything above that will go towards the boost pool.

Stamina
 
Stamina represents character's vitality, pain and fatigue tolerance, ability to keep performing after exhausting yourself or taking a lot of damage or determination not to succumb to damage. From your stamina, we determine your Action Points, or AP, which in turn represents both a resource for casting techniques as well as how much damage your character can withstand before biting the dust.

For each point you invest in stamina, you will receive 10 AP. This contributes to your maximum AP pool, which always starts at full at the start of every topic (Unless you entered from another topic.) You regain AP at a rate of 10 per post when not using techniques, and 20 per post when not attacking at all. Finally, 30 per post may be regained if a character takes no action (Obviously talking and basic movements are fine, but no combat-related task may be taken to receive this AP recovery). No AP is naturally recovered if a technique is used or maintained that post.

The following numbers show how tiring from exhaustion or damage affects character's performance at certain levels of remaining AP.
Exhaustion thresholds:
 

Some terms here are probably unknown and shall be further explained below. For explanation on Critical hits look further below at Dexterity stat.

Deteriorating Condition: This describes a negative condition of your body (usually) that only gets worse with time if not treated. In combat this is usually a bleeding wound or internal bleeding, broken bones caused by an enemy attack. While you have such condition, any AP you would regain from resting is halved and you also lose 10 AP each post. This condition can stack should you be inflicted with it again, each stack making you lose 10 AP more. A character stops losing AP from this condition if they lose consciousness and have 3 or fewer stacks. If they have 4 or 5 stacks, they instead go into a critical state and die at the end of the thread unless given medical attention. Any more and they continue to lose AP until they die.

Breathless: After significantly exerting themselves or gasping for air after taking a hit, character who become Breathless desperately needs to take a breather. Unlike Deteriorating Condition, Breathless does not stack. While a character has this condition, they are unable to regain any AP from resting. On top of that, they become vulnerable to suffocation attempts - for every post a Breathless character is unable to breathe (underwater or otherwise) they drop to one exhaustion threshold lower. If a character is not Breathless and spends one post unable to breathe, they become Breathless. To lose this condition they need to rest so that they would (if they weren't Breathless) recover 20 AP, so in other words spend two posts without casting jutsu or one post without attacking at all. This resting does not need to be done consecutively. If your exhaustion threshold was lowered because of suffocation, you recover it by 1 level each post you are not Breathless.

Strength

Strength represents your character's durability, physical resistances, constitution, and of course, brute physical strength. Characters with high strength are typically resilient to damage and extremely dangerous up close, be it from their devastating punches or lethal blade attacks or otherwise.

Lifting Strength Examples:
 

Strength grants a character the bodily vitality and durability to resist powerful attacks as well as dish them out. As such, only the portion of an attack's power that exceeds target's strength stat is doubled before being subtracted from their AP pool. i.e. Bob has 50 strength and is hit with a 50 power fireball. Because fireball's power does not exceed his strength, he loses 50 AP from the attack. But if he is hit with a 75 power boulder, he would lose 100 AP, because 75 exceeds 50 by 25 points, which are doubled for the final result.

Dexterity
 
Dexterity represents a character's agility, speed, precision and reaction capabilities. Characters with high dexterity are typically adept at avoiding attacks and hitting their foes where it hurts the most, and otherwise staying ahead of their opponent.

Reaction speed is inherently equal to your dexterity stat. Reaction speed determines how quick your character is to respond to stimuli. If an entity is moving below your RT, you can afford the time to think what you want to do. Otherwise, with each tier of difference between their speed and your reaction time it gets more and more difficult.

Tiers of speed advantage:
 

Now, you may have noticed that there are a few terms in here that may not be clear at first glance. Namely ‘critical hits’, ‘grazing hits’ and ‘blocking’, which are explained below:

Critical hits: damage is calculated as if the target had 0 durability (strength). For example, target has 40 strength and is hit with 50 power attack. Normally, the 10 that exceeds his strength would double and the result would be 60. But with a critical, his strength is treated as if 0 and all 50 of the attack power doubles, making it 100 point damage.

Grazing hits: damage is halved and rounded down after all the other calculations are done and before it is subtracted from target's AP. Let’s take the same example from before where normally you’d take 60 ap damage. If the hit was a grazing hit instead of a critical, you would halve the 60 and instead take 30 ap loss.

Blocking: Reduce power of the attack by half of your strength. Let's say you are hit by a jutsu with 50 power, but you block and have 50 strength, thus the attack hit with 25 power. It is from this 25 power hit that you will calculate ap damage.

Lethal Hits: Not mentioned above, as they are more of an exception than a rule. Lethal hits, much like how they sound, happen when one take a hit that's clearly deadly, such as being pierced directly through the head, heart or beheaded. Such would normally happen if one takes no action to avoid or reduce damage from a hit that would be deadly or if they are unable to do so, for example by being bound or incapacitated. Lethal hits, under approval of a battle mod, are allowed to bypass AP and damage rules, killing the character outright or leaving them in a critical condition, depending on the scenario.

Chakra

Chakra represents a sum of the character's chakra capabilities, ranging from innate talents to results of tiring training. Different people tend to be good with their chakra in different ways and so the benefits one's chakra gives depends on the chakra type they have chosen. All characters choose one of these upon creation:

Chakra Potency - People of this type have stronger chakra through some kind of phenomena - maybe they were born this way, maybe their bodies were modified somehow or maybe they've trained themselves to mold their chakra more condensed. People with this type are usually ninjutsu or otherwise jutsu users who focus on combat and overpowering their foes. Every two points in chakra the user may increase his/her jutsu’s strength by one. Jutsu may not exceed double their power in this way and this powering up can only be used on one jutsu per post. 

Chakra Control - Individuals with this chakra type are good at precisely controlling their chakra, maintaining control for extended periods of time and expending as little of it as they can. Sensory and Medical ninjas tend to be of this type. For every two points in your chakra stat you may deduct one ap from the cost of casting a jutsu per post. You may reduce the cost of more than one jutsu per post, but a single jutsu cannot be reduced to less than half of its cost.

Chakra Capacity - Those of this chakra type have significantly greater chakra capacity than a regular shinobi. This too can range from innate, to bodily modifications, to extensive training. Types of jutsu these people typically use isn't specific, but suffice to say they can get away with casting more jutsu or casting much more costly jutsu than their peers. For every 2 points in your chakra stat you get an additional five AP. This pool is tracked separately and can only be used to pay ability costs, not for withstanding damage. It also does not count for your total AP and plays no part in exhaustion threshold. 

Stunted Chakra - Those of this type are incapable of properly controlling their chakra. They may have been born this way, developed this condition over time or maybe some kind of event suddenly led to this disability. These people have no access to chakra elements and chakra based abilities. However, that untapped potential is constantly empowering them, causing their boost pool to increase by half the number of their chakra stat.

Substats

Durability - is equal to Strength and represents the point at which power of an attack is doubled.
Attack power - is substat of both Strength and Dexterity and is normally equal to their average. Is used for all default attacks.
Reaction time - is equal to Dexterity and represents one's ability to keep track of the movement of their foes and their attacks.
Movement speed - substat of both Strength and Dexterity and is equal to their average. This covers all movement speed - from running, dodging to attacking.
Exhaustion threshold - this represents the percentile points of remaining AP at which characters take debuffs. Every 5 point increase in this substat lowers the percentile points of AP by 1%.
Boost Pool - normally equal to half of your rank's stat cap. Represents the total amount of active increase to stats one may have at one time.
Chakra Potency - equal to chakra stat and also cannot be passively increased for those with Potency chakra type.
Chakra Control - equal to chakra stat and also cannot be passively increased  for those with Control chakra type. 
Chakra Capacity - equal to chakra stat and also cannot be passively increased  for those with Capacity chakra type.


Stats:
 

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PostSubject: Re: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:55 pm

First read problems with this:
-Movement speed. Making it the average of strength and dexterity just blatantly ruins any nin mains, while making tai mains OP af.
-With all of these different systems and everything, such as critical hits, it's impossible to fight unless you pull out a calculator or if you're Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting.
-Also stat caps based on rank are ridiculous. It's ruining any and all potentially good builds by stopping them and making them lose at a numbers game, which is what combat seems that it'll turn into here. I was a genin with 325 stats in Kumo, but by this system, I should have only had 70? All that does is obliterate motivation and make ranks the determining factor in a fight, instead of skill. But if this is a power level, like A rank genin or whatever, then this is turning into shinobi generations? After that mass PM I checked it out, and the rules were so extensive that it was a complete turn off. Doing a total overhaul of a system that worked relatively fine and then over complicating it is just going to have the same effect.

That's all I've got for now, but I'll probably be back to bitch some more later


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PostSubject: Re: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:02 pm

- Tbh, I've read through this all multiple times, and I feel like it just needlessly complicates the stat system. Besides, I think the current system is just fine, I, personally, think it's one of the current things which don't need to be changed at all.

- I don't agree with limiting the amount of stats to a certain rank, I feel like doing that, means that it is nigh impossible for a low-rank to even stand a chance against a high-rank. Now, you may say "That's how it should be" but I don't agree. Giving everyone the same stat cap, allows them to have a chance to nearly compete with other. I think the current system of giving the higher-ranked people more jutsu slots is enough to give the incentive to rank up. Heck, I actually really like the idea of getting more technique slots as I rank-up. Limiting my stats to my rank, though? I feel like that's a massive turn-off imo.

- I also agree with Damon on the fact that this just massively nerfed nin mains and buffed tai mains to absolute god-level. Now, I'm a tai-main and my view is extremely biased. But even I agree that it is a little too much.

- Also, what is the point of not allowing people to train stats at the same time as training techniques? That doesn't make any sense to me and only adds to the annoying grind of building your character.

TLDR: The stat system doesn't need to change, this just needlessly complicates it all.


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PostSubject: Re: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:05 pm

+1 to both


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PostSubject: Re: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:05 pm

We're going to let some posts build up before we start answering some of these things you guys are bringing up but I want you guys to know we are online and reading the questions/complaints or anything else being said.


Stats:
 

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PostSubject: Re: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:10 pm

I EXTREMELY agree with everything that Damon and Akemi has stated.


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PostSubject: Re: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:10 pm

I agree with pretty much everything Damon and Akemi stated.

Too add to that, I'm not too sure how I feel about losing Actions Points when taking hits. The rate it seems we lose action points, I feel like fights will end in a matter of a few posts, especially if we take into consideration the stat caps based on our ranks. Like they mentioned above, the site will become stat op instead of being determined by player skill. If we're going to try and implement a "health system", I don't think that health system should be the same as our chakra pool, or AP. If there's a health system at all it should be its own stat/category.

Personally, I loved the way the stat system is set up now. But I think it would be cool to take the concept of "un-training" stats to "re-train" them in other stat categories and simply apply it to the stat system we have now. It would go a long way to building our characters.
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PostSubject: Re: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:16 pm

I'm at work, I've really only had time to glance over it.

The things that irk me the most are the stat caps based on rank, and removing the possibility of training stats and jutsu at the same time.

I also don't care for the chakra types. Chakra control, potency, and capacity should be things that come with rank, not chosen upon character creation. Maybe make it so you have to split your chakra stat between the three, there for giving you the ability to train them?

As for the tai being stronger than nin mains all of a sudden, I'm gonna say we should hold off on that until the jutsu system is released. There very well could be something in there that causes it to balance out.


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PostSubject: Re: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:17 pm

Yeah, like I don't really see the point of losing AP when taking hits UNLESS you're being hit by a jutsu that actually depletes it.


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PostSubject: Re: Propose V7 Stat Rules   Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:18 pm

Natural stats should not be capped at all considering their children that can outlift and are faster than adults in the real world 

Putting more towards combat helps in a sense but it does limit those that are nin based I agree with the buffs to tai but you did too much the old stat rules would be just as great if you were gonna do that with just a few tweaks and it kinda looking like the generations shit 

From my first actual glance at this it seems if you take some of the systems in here and implement them into the old rules you'll get a better result 

Will give better thoughts after I get home to the pc


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