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 Can some things be taken off the banned list?

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Gary
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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:17 am

Is it that time again already?

It seems like a thread or talk like this goes around once or twice a year.

Allow me to preface my arguments here with an idea I hope many of you are aware of, it is called the slippery slope phenomenon. In this phenomenon taking a step—even what seems to be a small step—in one direction (for the sake of relevancy let’s say unbanning a certain jutsu) cascades into a chain of often negative events that are much larger than initially intended (let’s say opening doors to loopholes and abuse of our system). So far it seems that many thoughts put forward here go something like this: “If we balance it then it will be fine.” This, as time has shown, is a very poor concept to embrace, because of power inflation over time on this site in particular. That is to say, that as time goes on what starts as balanced will eventually become stronger and stronger until it is ‘bonkers OP’.

Trust me, I’ve seen it happen time and time again.

But enough with generalities. I have some time on my hands, so here are my thoughts on these jutsu:

Edo Tensei:

Once upon a time this was unbanned only to be banned again, shall we explore why?

The ability to resurrect people has a few aspects that are hard to carry over in our rp environment. And by that I mean personality and understanding of events of someone else’s character is near impossible to represent properly as a separate rper. Thus, we would run into many arguments about information and ideas gained from those brought back—not worth it and difficult to moderate.

Sure, we could slap limits on it. Sure, we could make memories go blank. Sure, we could reduce the power of those resurrected. Sure, we could do a lot of things, but I don't think we will as it will undoubtedly lead to things we do not intend.

Honestly, if you want to have something like Edo Tensei make a living clone or two (who doesn’t want all the specialties and elements at their disposal?). Those things are much stronger than any neutered form of Edo Tensei would be. [Insert rant about how those too should be banned]

Bakuton Taijutsu:

Kozai, unsurprisingly, hit the nail on the head here with his commentary. Give it a read.

Limelight:

This jutsu is banned due to its massive area of effect and possible zero counterplay. Seeing as we have no way to decide how large a village really is then this jutsu becomes very hard to mechanize. Furthermore, once it has been used one could easily claim the deaths of all people within a village who very well might not have had a chance to defend themselves. Personally, I am a fan of counterplay; I hope you are too.

Kirin:

I think to make this jutsu a thing we would have to destroy a lot of what put it on the banlist in the first place and, by extension, makes it worth using at all. That is to say we would have to slap a duration on it and make it not an instahit kinda deal. Sure, I can see working, but is it really worth it?

Water Sky Convergence/Magnet Release:

F R E E  M A N I P U L A T I O N.

I think that’s everything. Just keep in mind what I said in the beginning: unbanning may seem like a fine idea at first, but can lead to unintended consequences—sometimes it isn’t worth opening that can of beans, ya know?

Cheers.


"Battle not with Monsters lest ye Become a Monster and if you gaze into the abyss the abyss gazes also into you"
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Tsume Chokyoshi
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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:39 am

With Swift Release I can see it's OPness. It's basically a fast version of body flicker. 

One the count on Kirin, because the fact that it takes an environmental attribute and I'm guessing you have to know Chidori, it shouldn't be ruled out of unbanning it.

With Bakuton Taijutsu, I think that the way the health is set up on this site allows the explosion not to be fatal or effective. 

With Edo Tensei, I believe that the way Tobirama's has it is that it would be more for the story and teach some of their jutsu on to people. With the Reanimates being NPCed would only be if the person that made the character had left the site. ALSO, it's not like a lot of people can have this jutsu if they have to have a certain requirements or that it's limited.

I kinda understand why Water sky Convergence would stay banned (Even though I don't 100% know why it can't but hey that's life). But with Magnet style, I think that the whole thing shouldn't be banned because by the site's standards it's free manipulation with some techniques.


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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:16 pm

@Ryou concerning Bakuton Taijutsu, the techs create explosions inside people's bodies. Internals do not inherit a person's health stat, making it essentially a sure-kill element. I'd rather not have that running around, genjutsu and gentle fist are bad enough.


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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:52 pm

I really don't want some of these pushed off after V7 so I wanna go through what I think should be taken off...again.

Edo Tensei: 
I'm still trying really hard for this one for the same reasons I said the first time. So nice uses could be used with this as well like learning the jutsu that the character made (hopefully with the player permission) or just some good plot. It's not as much as a combat thing but more of a story thing.

Limelight: 
Still pushing on that one but it seems most people agree with me

Kirin:
I still think that it's pretty well balanced with it having to have a certain environment and the main affinity being lighting.

Water Sky Convergence:
I still think it's bull that your calling it free manipulation

Magnet Release: 
We kinda already went over this

AND A NEW ONE

  Dead Demon Consuming Seal:
If the balance is what you're looking for then here is a pretty well-balanced one, instant death for both the user and the person it catches.


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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:00 pm

Quote :
Dead Demon Consuming Seal:
If the balance is what you're looking for then here is a pretty well-balanced one, instant death for both the user and the person it catches.

Quote :
is a pretty well-balanced one, instant death for both the user and the person it catches.

Quote :
instant death for both the user and the person it catches.

Quote :
instant death

Quote :
well-balanced

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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:07 pm

For both players might i add and that doesn't mean you can catch the other player.

ALSO i guess you can resist it, EX: Orochimaru


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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:57 pm

Alright, so since I've already forgotten the discussion on this, I'm going to respond to Ryou's last large post:


Edo Tensei:

In my opinion, this can be balanced, but you're going to have a VERY, VERY hard time convincing the rest of the site. Also, people abused this like crazy in NRPG history (just ask any really oldgen about Near).

Limelight:


Ask a mod if you can app it as a really high-prep collab tech. (Or ask me if I can ask a mod, idk)

Kirin:
Think about it this way. You need only a couple of B-A rank fire techs to set up a huge, limited-tier lightning attack that costs 0 AP. Yes, it requires preparation, but unless you make the power weaker than it was in canon, I doubt this can get through (I'm a fan of it being rebalanced and unbanned though).

Water Sky Convergence:

Just like... avoid free manip. I love this tech (I had it before it was banned), but I can see why it is the way it is (I could kill an S-rank as a chunin by virtue of this tech alone, no skill required).

Magnet Release:

I revamped this! But Aki archived the clan :c. Ask a mod (if you're making an alt) if the Kirino clan can be revived. Have fun if they do, I think it's one of my coolest creations to date, and got some good use from other members.

Dead Demon Seal thingy:

This can be used with shadow clones in canon. Unless you somehow deform it from its canon format, there's no way you're getting this through.



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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:25 pm

Edo Tensei:
I can see why people think this is OP and easily miss used but think of it like this. The user must first find the remains of the dead person. Which isn't terribly hard to do in a open location but harder if it's in like a major village. Like, most villages aren't gonna just let you late their past leader's DNA. After that journey is over, they might have to get the specialty (if they are going to make it need a specialty). EVEN THEN after all that hard work, you can only have like 3,4 or 5 Edo Tensei the strength of most genin.

Limelight: 
Mods, you should re-look this, if you need me too, ill make an app for it here. I'll make an app for my idea for any of these

Kirin:
Honestly, relooking at this it would be very hard to revamp this. But I could still see it as a nice jutsu to have even without the instant transport


Water Sky Convergence:
I could see it where it could be very overpowered in certain situations but there are ways (in my opinion) to make them less Op.

Dead Demon Seal thingy:
I guess it's just me that thinks that instant death for both characters is fair (even though, the target has to first be caught.)

I would also like to point out that these could all be made into limited techs.

Mods, DM me if you want more and maybe if you want me to app these ;3


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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:09 pm

If you want to make a jutsu that's similar to Kirin and operates off of similar principles (but still costs AP and the like), I'm sure you could. If you put the katon prep and everything in there, I'm confident you could get some pretty hefty buffs.


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PostSubject: Re: Can some things be taken off the banned list?   Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:45 pm

just a small correction: for Edo Tensi you need the DNA of the individual being revived AND a living sacrifice to be used as the conduit to which the dead person's soul is bound


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