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 Let's talk about the Uzumaki.

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Rakka Yuki <3
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PostSubject: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:22 pm

Hello, all. Today I’d like to talk to you about some things that are very near and dear to my heart: The medical spec, and the Uzumaki clan. Specifically, the bloodline and the skill afforded to the Uzumaki. Uzumaki Longevity, the natural ability of the Uzumaki to resist death, also commonly known as the Anime Protag effect, and Uzumaki Fuinjutsu Mastery, the funky sealing power that the Uzumaki are known for. As you’ll likely notice, plenty of Uzumaki in cannon had both of these traits, and as you’ll also likely notice, they’re mutually exclusive. You can only have one at present, and if you wanted the other, too bad, you were locked out of it from character creation. Even if you try to switch specs to get the other ability, you’re locked out for good.


When I noticed this, well, I couldn't... Believe it.

Allow me to explain why this is wack, yo. In canon, Naruto quite clearly had the Longevity ability, despite not being a medical ninja, and ESPECIALLY despite it not being his main specialization. Sure, he had kyuubi regen later on, but it’s pretty clear Naruto was pretty resilient even without his Fox buddy.

So basically, the natural Longevity of the uzumaki clan, an inherited trait, isn’t usable unless you main the medical specialty. That seems rather weird, as the uzumaki weren’t exactly known for their medical prowess. Likewise, Naruto couldn’t use the chains of his clan, which are a given to any Uzumaki currently on the site.

So I’m here to open a dialogue on this, because these edits can break builds. In my opinion, an Uzumaki should be able to choose two facets on character creation, and they shouldn’t be tied to your first spec, unlike how they are currently, and they most certainly should not lock you out of changing your spec later on, as that really doesn’t add anything to the character building, just constraints that give builders headaches.

That’s my opinion, but I’d love to hear yours. Let’s discuss this.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:32 pm

Well, From a Canon Perspective;The Chakra Chains are rare; So having Fuuinjutsu as a main spec would make sense as it was a trait that only emerged with Uzumaki that had amazing knowledge of Seals and Fuuinjutsu thus making sense that one would need to have proficiency in said arts to unlock that side of his heritage.

Yet, on the other side having Med spec as a main to having Uzumaki Longevity is extremely senseless; as this was a trait passed along the Uzumaki bloodline; regardless of what path they took; A stronger life forced fueled by sheer willpower. This is especially relevant when you factor in the that in canon Naruto didn't even touch Medical Jutsu at all. It's just a trait passed trough the clan, it shouldn't be linked to any spec.

These changes done to the Uzumaki sense ruin the clan and its authenticity to canon; I hope we see the correct changes done and reverted to a more rational and canon state.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:35 pm

Just a quick sidenote: Karin had chakra chains and she was a med specialist, not really a fuinjutsu user. That's all I have to add for the time being.


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Last edited by Kōmori Hozuki <3 on Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:36 pm

Hmm, that's interesting. I never noticed that Uzumaki Longevity required Med as main spec. I could understand requiring it as a spec for the first ability but needing it to be main for the rest, I agree that it doesn't make sense to need Medical as main spec to have access to those abilities. 

I also think Uzu's should get a +20 to health as a Bl boost due to their durability and etc etc but idk if that'd be overkill for the clan.

@Sinai: completely agree +1



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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:55 pm

It was recently added so that it was just either/or, it wasn't always that way
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:14 pm

That's sucks :/ Don't like that at all
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:29 pm

In theory yes it makes sense.

Canon wise of course it makes sense..but theres a problem. The site isnt directally going full blast canon.

Now while i say that yes it makes sense to allow an uzimaki to be able to have both " longetivity" and "the sealing mastery" There are pro's and con's to this.

Pros

1. You get two very powerful abilities. And can make a truely terrifying charecter. (Especially if you obtain other bloodlines. Like senju, and jugo for starters.)

2. It means you do not have to choose which specs. In other words you can just go fuin, medical, and pick another spec, since you have two amazing abilities. You are also able to do sooo many things....

Now cons

1. You are terribly broken beyond comprehension. Especially with other bloodlines in the mix.  You can easily do medical and even if you are dying pretty much revive yourself with an S ranked medical jutsu. 

4. To add on to the above point. Ever thought of an S ranked medical/fuin seal on the body? Yep. You know that creates a nice regenerating factor?

2.  Lets not forget that you also  since you get all perks and no bite. This puts other clans who must choose a single perk at a disadvantage.

3. Despite the argument. You do not have to earn these things. In fact you are simply born with them and wander around dropping ppl like flies. By taking lethal damage and then healing/ being healed for the better words. 


So in speaking it would be cool and all but think about this.

Why in the world should uzimaki simply get acess at creation to two very strong abilities. Yet, other clans that must pick or choose do not get such an option? 

In the heart i agree, but as a member who looks for balence this idea  is terribly unbalenced. It is far more balenced leaving it as choose one ability.

Plus that leaves actual vulnerability. Instead of being the one guy who has: Taijutsu, weaponry, and puppetry. Yet has longetivity, and fuinjutsu mastery?...  that should not even be pluasable.




[size=30] As much as you may mix and match you must admit that there is balence behind this. The very scale that enables you to actually make a charecter "good" and not "broken" because of your clan perks alone. [/size]


[size=30] Remember this is before adding stats,  jutsu, skills, armors, items, and weapons. Just take a nice long look at the base form. Ask yourself. Should uzimaki be considered even remotely able to have two very strong abilities without a collar and leash?[/size]


who said it was easy?



yensung aburame


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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:49 pm

Bring back Chakra Chain Mastery
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:52 pm

@Yensung Aburame <3 wrote:
In theory yes it makes sense.

Canon wise of course it makes sense..but theres a problem. The site isnt directally going full blast canon.

Now while i say that yes it makes sense to allow an uzimaki to be able to have both " longetivity" and "the sealing mastery" There are pro's and con's to this.

Pros

1. You get two very powerful abilities. And can make a truely terrifying charecter. (Especially if you obtain other bloodlines. Like senju, and jugo for starters.)

2. It means you do not have to choose which specs. In other words you can just go fuin, medical, and pick another spec, since you have two amazing abilities. You are also able to do sooo many things....

Now cons

1. You are terribly broken beyond comprehension. Especially with other bloodlines in the mix.  You can easily do medical and even if you are dying pretty much revive yourself with an S ranked medical jutsu. 

4. To add on to the above point. Ever thought of an S ranked medical/fuin seal on the body? Yep. You know that creates a nice regenerating factor?

2.  Lets not forget that you also  since you get all perks and no bite. This puts other clans who must choose a single perk at a disadvantage.

3. Despite the argument. You do not have to earn these things. In fact you are simply born with them and wander around dropping ppl like flies. By taking lethal damage and then healing/ being healed for the better words. 


So in speaking it would be cool and all but think about this.

Why in the world should uzimaki simply get acess at creation to two very strong abilities. Yet, other clans that must pick or choose do not get such an option? 

In the heart i agree, but as a member who looks for balence this idea  is terribly unbalenced. It is far more balenced leaving it as choose one ability.

Plus that leaves actual vulnerability. Instead of being the one guy who has: Taijutsu, weaponry, and puppetry. Yet has longetivity, and fuinjutsu mastery?...  that should not even be pluasable.




[size=30] As much as you may mix and match you must admit that there is balence behind this. The very scale that enables you to actually make a charecter "good" and not "broken" because of your clan perks alone. [/size]


[size=30] Remember this is before adding stats,  jutsu, skills, armors, items, and weapons. Just take a nice long look at the base form. Ask yourself. Should uzimaki be considered even remotely able to have two very strong abilities without a collar and leash?[/size]

In terms of having two abilities and picking and choosing, I cannot think of any other clan that has to pick and choose between what they get. Terumi for example have access to two very powerful elements. Do they have to choose just one? No. Do Uchiha have to choose between getting Genjutsu resistance or the large RT boost? no. As of now, Uzumaki's  are the only ones that have to pick and choose which boost they receive. On top of that, cannot later change which ability they want. 

Now I agree and think it would be better if it was something that had to be worked toward much like those that try to get the better stages of the sharingan rather than having it all be immediately available but it shouldn't be  "You must choose the red pill or the blue pill" type scenario.

"Plus that leaves actual vulnerability. Instead of being the one guy who has: Taijutsu, weaponry, and puppetry. Yet has longetivity, and fuinjutsu mastery?...  that should not even be pluasable."
Yes it shouldn't, and it should at least require that the person have the spec, but in terms of locking it, see my statement above



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Last edited by |Snow| on Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Let's talk about the Uzumaki.   Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:54 pm

Kay, gonna go bit by here first, but Yen, you seem to have missed the bigger issue here, that upon character creation if you don't have the required spec, you're locked out of your BL forever despite it being genetically a part of you. If you switch specs, you can never get it back.

1. You'd have a +20 advantage over what any other character can do, and that's if you build very specifically. Also, bloodline stacking isn't nearly as much of an issue as it was, nor is it an issue that should be discussed while balancing this particular clan. Every clan should be looked at in a vacuum, because not everyone is gonna go steal somebody's eyes or limbs for a BL. Weakening this one because Jugo is strong makes little sense

2. You're not really making a whole lot of sense here, but no, you shouldn't have to invest in a spec to get a bloodline. Investing in a spec to focus on it and make it more powerful is one thing, but this is something you're born with. Nobody is born with a medical spec. Nobody is born with taijutsu spec. Nobody is born with any spec. People ARE born with their KKG, however, and I don't see why that would vanish just because they decided to learn how to do ninjutsu instead of fuin or med. Naruto didn't know med at all, and still displayed all of the durability of the Uzumaki bloodline

1. As I said before, you have a +20 over what other builds can do, and that's if you stack substat boosts. This is not terribly broken, especially for a Limited clan. As I've said before, other people's Bloodlines shouldn't be considered when balancing a specific clan. BL stacking is another issue entirely.

2, er, 4? As I said before, this just gives you a +20 advantage at most, and could be easily rectified by stating in the BL that they don't stack, though it'd hardly be necessary, this being a limited clan.

2 Again? Uzumaki have no outright stat booster like a lot of clans do, nor do they have a dojutsu or a clan element. I think two facets of the BL is completely fair, especially since it's a limited clan.

3. Starting with something powerful and not having to earn it is usually the nature of bloodlines. A lot of BLs require no training at all, with exceptions like the Uchiha and Shinkou, which are capable of a lot more powerful stuff then the Uzumaki as far as BL abilities are concerned. 

Now they're not numbered, so I'll just talk I guess?

I don't know what exactly you're talking about insofar as other clans that MUST pick or choose not getting the option? There really aren't clans that make you make a choice, the only one that comes to mind is Shinkou which, oh hey, gives 2/3 facets of the ability

Again, as I've stated above, it's not unbalanced at all. The issue that you seem to be taking most into consideration is BL stacking, which is the real culprit here. Clans shouldn't suffer on the assumption that you'll steal BLs from people

Why? As a taijutsu and weap user, you'd be expected to be pretty tough, so longevity would make sense. I don't know why you'd ever take Fuin mastery without having fuin, but it shouldn't have to be your main spec, and if this tai/weap/pupp guy/gal decided to take it, the benefits would only extend to C-rank fuin techs, which is not at all unfair.

No, there's not balance in limiting someone to one spec as their main and punishing them to switching. It's nothing but a hindrance, and that at the very least should be removed so Uzumaki have the ability to make mistakes and rectify them.

Yes, again. At most, they're getting a +20 over what another person would get, IF they stack substat boosters, and they're sacrificing a bloodline boost to do it. Longevity's boost is cool, but it won't save you if your head is lopped off or you're blown away, or stabbed in the heart, or, really, injured in any way that would kill you anyways. Fuinjutsu mastery is cool, but niche, and it doesn't apply to S-Ranks except for the boost, which again, anybody can get.
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