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 The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes

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should Clanless be able to have transplants
Yes
61%
 61% [ 22 ]
No
39%
 39% [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 36
 

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Ren
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PostSubject: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:15 pm

So in line with the change of site management I'd like to request that we perhaps give that clanless 'buff' a second look and perhaps allow clanless to receive transplants again; Den and I had a good idea in the chatbox to change bloodlines so that having more than one transplant would require a health based roll that could be a risk too your health or prevent you from getting more transplants; which would make for a bit more of an organic form of balancing on transplants.


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PostSubject: Re: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:00 am

I feel like Kozai summed it up in the chat box pretty nicely.

If we revert the clanless buff, maybe. Even then, transplants are going to be highly frowned upon still, so it'd effectively nerf all but the few who write it convincingly enough. (We don't want 74 Orochimaru rip offs.)


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PostSubject: Re: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:01 am

One thing I'll say is that this suggestion seems like two separate albeit linked topics, how clanless should be treated and how transplants should be treated. I highly suggest splitting the discussion into two threads.

I know part of this discussion is whether or not clanless should be able to have transplants but given how theres a number of other clanless features that have to be talked about I think it'd be better if there was a separate discussion involving transplant rules.



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PostSubject: Re: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:11 am

Hey Everyone!

I saw this and felt like I Had to post on it, so let me give you my opinion of it so far (Now, before I begain, I will admit, I am only a genin, and I have only been on this site for under three months. So I don’t know everything,)

I feel like the system we have for clanless is unfair. I appreciate the Admin’s / Moderator’s attempts to try to make it fair, but at times I look at this and say to myself ‘I sort of wish they just made us clans, but didn’t give us any benefits from our clans.’ Now, there are a few ‘boost’ that people belive we have, but I feel like the majority of them can actually works against us.

‘Boost?’
1. “Clan less shinobi get 25 more stat points than clans do!” [b]

This is a misstatement. The truth is, we only have 5 more stat points. Clans have the potential to get up to 345 stat points without any boost from there clan alone (Hyuga gets +10 to speed and chakra, Uchiha the same, Akari +20 to speed, Senju +20 to chakra, Kaguya gets + 20 to helath, and this is just what is on the top of my head). On top of that, those that do get to start out with them and don’t have to train them like clan less do. As such, they get to max stats quicker and because of that, they get a maxed stat bonus’s quicker. On top of that, for most people, the stat cap is 100, Clans are allowed to surpass that with their boost. [b] So, what this basicly comes down to is clans have the potential to get higher specialized stats quicker, whereas clan less gets less stats for more work.

2. [b] Clan less shinboi get more Jutsu slots and more custom jutsus!

This is sort of correct, or at least it is once you get to jounin level. However, This is not true before that level. At Chunin level, the number of jutsu’s you can have is equal, but at genin it is more. As such, a clan less shinboi has one of 2 options, 1. Get as much jutsu as you can, and when you rank up, you only have a limited number of A rank jutsu slots remaining for your next element and specialty. So, ins summary, they do, but it is only really effective once they get to jounin rank.

3. [b] But isn’t it unfair that Clanless can start out as Bijuu?

True, and that would make the game much more balance, but note the word their START most clan less people don’t start with them. So, they are basicly the same as those in clans. On top of that, clan shinobi have the ability to recover a bijuu and become one later in the game, whereas Clanless shinboi don’t have the opritunity to do that with bloodlines. (Currently) Also, along those lines, take a look at the left of your screen, under the Bijuu section. More than half the Bijuu are the property of clan shinboi. As such, it is even less likely that clanless shinboi are to start with a bijuu.

This is a short summary of the problems of clanless. However, it doesn’t appear like this is a permanent problem, and can be fixed quite easily. Here are some of my suggestions. (I don’t recommend to implement all of these, but I do recommend some.

1. After a ninja is approved, allow them to change themselves from clanless to a clan if they can come up with a good IC reason behind it, and they are below the rank of chunin

As someone who started the game recently and this was for the most part the first time I did an RP site, I can say that the start of the game was so confusing! I didn’t understand anything about it, but I felt like I did enough to make a character. So, I did, with the full intention of if I messed up, I could just make another character. The problem with that is by the time I understood the problems with Clanless, I had already developed an interest in my character to the point that I didn’t want to say “Oh, just npc/kill her, I don’t care, let me make a ninja with a blood line!” As such, if it is early enough in the ninja’s career that it might be possible they weren’t aware of a secret bloodline that they didn’t know about, I feel like they could be allowed to change to a clan.

2. Give clanless the ability to go above 100 stats in a single, or double fields.

If clans can go above 100 stats, why can’t clan less? Give them permission to train to 120 in one field, or 110 in two. That will stop us from becoming too diverse (This can even replace the current clan less buff) That will balance thigns out

3. Scratch the clanless buff, and just let Clanless have transplants.

I hate this option of just saying “Oh, clanless? Welp, out of luck until you can find a transplant! Sucks to be you!” But at the same time, I like it better than what we have right now.
On my character personally, I don’t see her becoming any higher than A rank (most likely not even b rank, but possibly A rank) no matter what I do because she is clan less. If there was the possibility for transplanting something into her, I would know if I worked hard enough for it, then I could possibly break the barrier that is on her right now.


4. Lastly, if you take nothing else from this, please take this, Chunin clan less shinboi need more jutsu slots than clans!

Even if it is just 2 more A and B ranks and 1 more s rank, that would be enough




Last edited by Hikari Namikaze <3 on Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:12 am

(Sorry My comp really didn't like me saying "clanless, and wanted to make me say "Clan less" at every oppritunity


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PostSubject: Re: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:20 am

I rather agree with Hikari, or at least jump the clanless Buff from 350 to 375 to make it more fair for all RPers. I could see Clanless not being allowed to have a bloodline or transplant it because 'you need the DNA to hold a bloodline and that is only found in someone who already had one' but as far as ive seen there's not reason IC or Site reason on why a clanless person can't have a bloodline, other than 'because we said so'. At the same time if you're going to nerf the clanless buff so that we can have a bloodline than maybe you should think about nerfing the people who have multiple bloodlines first. If you nerf clanelss than anyone who has more than a single bloodline should lose access to all of that as well. If not you're pretty much saying to anyone who started clanless that 'we dont care about the work you've put in, shoulda started out as a clan'.

I think there should be further caps on bloodlines, make it more restrictive so that we dont have a site of 90% bloodlines with a small few who aren't. It would make things more interesting when you actually ran into a bloodline wielding person rather than where it is now with almost every other person wielding a bloodline.


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Shiroi Shinzo
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PostSubject: Re: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:27 am

Ok so, let's get some things clear.

Jutsu. Are really fucking powerful.
Stats. Are really fucking powerful.

IF clanless can get KKG, they cannot have other boosts.
IF clanless cannot get KKG, they need other boosts.

My suggestion? Come up with a good reason why clanless cannot get KKG. The current reason would also imply that those in the Nara clan cannot get KKG either (which may be workable, IDK). If we replace the 'clanless' term with 'kkgless', then all of the sudden the DNA argument... is close enough. So let's roll with that idea.

Step 1: define the groups.
Simple enough. Groups are now:
KKG: Any group/individual with a Kekkai Genkai and/or clan specific advanced element
Hiden: Any group/individual with a clan and clan techniques, but with neither a KKG nor a clan specific advanced element (canon Nara)
Clanless: Any individual who is neither of the above
Furthermore, KKG and Hiden both belong to the supergroup "Clan", so any time I reference the term 'clan character', I mean both KKG and Hiden.

Step 2: Define baselines
KKG: limits are clearly defined at this time, no need to expand.
Hiden: lame number of canon jutsu, same number of custom jutsu, same number of clan jutsu as KKG characters. Give them +25 total stats. These are available upon creation. They can 'break' the 100 soft cap. But you cannot move them. You declare where you want them on your character app and they stay there.
Clanless: any clan techniques that clan characters have, clanless are allowed to have the same number and rank in custom techniques. Clanless get the same stat boosts as Hiden.

Step 3:
Discuss: is this balanced?




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PostSubject: Re: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:35 am

I like Shiroi's idea. Clanless don't need transplants, but in that case there certainly needs to be a fair boost in either stats or jutsu power for them. Clans give additional stats as Hikari pointed out, making the 350 feel rather inferior to what clans get, since they can further specialize and put extra points into speed/chakra. It makes them stronger statwise and jutsu wise, which is very unfair to clanless.

I like the idea of being able to break the 100 natural cap for clanless, so long as it's only as much as clan characters can (so like 120 or 125 for only 1 single stat). Shiroi's plan strikes me as the best tbqh.


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PostSubject: Re: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:03 am

I was takling to Risako on the chat, and she brought up a good point

"Not all clans give stat bonus"

She is completely right, as a mater of fact, I Think most clans don't have that boost.

However there is one fact that you can't ignore, They do have the potential to get it whereas Clanless don't. Sure, acording to Risako, they only have a .05% chance of it working (I don't know if the math on that is correct, but lets presume for this situation that it is) that still is better than the current 0% that is for clanless.

How about this just as a compromise?

We can keep the buff as it is, but clan less are allowed to get transplants. If they do, then they loose all of the abilites they get for being clanless, and become a clan. Does that seem fair? Nothing changes with the site balance, just Clanless shinboi now have the opportunity to become clanned?


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PostSubject: Re: The Clanless (De)buff & Transplant changes   Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:09 am

Hikari that doesn't solve anything. Clanless would still be underpowered. Why would any clanless drop their stat buffs to become clanned off a transplant? That's a completely inferior way of starting as a clan member. Transplants tend to be weaker than the originals (either cost wise or limited in jutsu). There is no benefit at all to clanless there, and in fact it might nerf them. It's basically telling them that you can drop your clanless to have a transplant, but now you're even weaker than you were before, especially when compared to clan members.


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