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 A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful

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Ren
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PostSubject: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:43 pm

So, as it stands businesses are currently relatively redundant, you can make a particularly unique item and charge for it, but considering the 'rarity' of Ryo it makes more sense for people to just make similar items that are more tailored to them and get it cheeper since if you want to make a profit you currently have to mark up the price of the object above what anyone can get by making their own; which also creates clutter in the apps section.

The Solution that I propose for this would be to make custom items more expensive than items sold in shops. After all It doesn't make sense that all the PC's in the world are master blacksmiths, fletchers, Jewelers, ect. all at once; so they would have to pay for the services of a Profesional who would want more than just the price of the raw materials right?  The Investment in Businesses would be paying for the necessary equipment and staff to be able to make high quality equipment and thus it stands to reason that the Business wouldn't have that same issue.

Instead of the current system why don't we make it so that the max ryo for businesses as per the current rules is the most they can spend on raw materials.  I.E a Business that can sell items for a max of 4000 Ryo under the current system would be able to make an item of a value of 4000 Ryo, and then mark up the price as they saw fit.

Lets take for example a simple Katana. 50 Sharpness and 50 health would mean a cost of 2000 Ryo. I propose the cost of making this weapon without a business should be 2x (mainly because thats just easy to math.) meanwhile a Business with enough capital to sell items up to the value of 2000 could make these katana's and sell them for 3000 Ryo. thus providing a valuable service and turning a profit.


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Iesada Saito
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PostSubject: Re: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:38 pm

If I might play devil's advocate here...

I feel such a change would simply force everyone to become a 'vendor' of sorts and then simply buy their own goods. Of course, one might say that people can't buy from their own stock, but I could still see a few ways around it. Now, I'm going to level with you here, I don't think the whole business idea has ever been well made and I think it adds a complexity not altogether needed in our roleplay environment.

You're probably thinking 'Man, Gary said that with no logic to back up his statement' and you'd be correct. So, let me elaborate a bit:

Reason 1: Shop systems will probably always have loopholes that can be exploited much like any system, it is only a matter of time.

Reason 2: It adds an entry barrier to new members who might have difficulty understanding our site to begin with.

Reason 3: More staff work, which, frankly and in my opinion, we can't afford to create at the moment.

Just my thoughts; I do really enjoy these discussions about the site, thanks for bringing up the topic.
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PostSubject: Re: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:40 pm

Reason 4: Ganki gets rich again by exploiting noobs with low quality items.

Doesn't sound like a bad idea, but yeah reason 3 on Gary's list is a hardcore con.
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PostSubject: Re: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:20 pm

I'll be contacting my lawyer...
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PostSubject: Re: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:30 pm

Where's my inheritance
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PostSubject: Re: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:32 pm

Let's be careful not to derail a serious discussion with memes, 'cmon guys.
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PostSubject: Re: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:40 am

To play Devils advocate to your devils advocate I can agree with some of your reasoning however It would seem to me that the proposed system would discourage people from making their own shops, just to use them themselves, since businesses still require a sizeable downpayment of Ryo. Thus anyone who simply wants buy one or two their own creations would be better off simply providing the 'patent' to a local business and having them make the item for them.

Now you said that you think businesses are an idea that adds a level of complexity not needed in our roleplay environment. However I disagree,

Reason 1: The simple fact that there are already businesses and rules for them indicate that there is or was a demand for the ability to run your own business on site. We are a roleplay site and, outside of people who want to rp something such as a robot gunman, which does not fit with the theme of the site, we should provide them with the ability to rp what they want to rp.

Reason 2: A lot of the member base on the site derive enjoyment from creating cool and interesting items and these items often end up character specific simply because there is no reason for them not to be. A buisiness system provides the member base with the ability to share their creations with each other in an IC an useful way.

Now on to your reasoning for thinking we should remove the system.

Reason 1 isn't really a valid reason, you said yourself that any system will have loopholes that can be exploited, and these loopholes are usually patched soon afterwards, that is the nature of any system.

Reason 2 I can understand how you could come to that conclusion, however to offer an alternate result this proposed system might actually make things easier for new members since, much like the jutsu directory, it provides them with easy access to the up to date items that they can purchase.

Reason 3 Yep, your right here, I've got no counter to this one; the closest I can come is to argue that the system would not create that much work, and could *possibly* even decrease the amount of staff work since it might encourage people to buy already app'ed and approved items rather than making their own. Meaning staff would simply have to approve the occasional business and the purchases that they would have had to approve on the item page anyway.

No worries Gary, I feel the same way.


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PostSubject: Re: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:51 am

Quote :
we should provide them with the ability to rp what they want to rp.

There's nothing stopping them from roleplaying owning a business. Ganki does it, it's not as if there's anything preventing people from doing that. Also nothing preventing them from making the item purchasable from them IC as a business. Whether as a stall or a wandering merchant etc.

The last time businesses were brought back I don't remember many people showing interest in it. Also the time before that, only one or two of the businesses themselves really 'thrived'.

Making a new system for something that might not be used by even a few members of the forum is just a waste of time for the mods that are already busy.

Best thing to do, make a business IC. Set up business deals with other people. If a bunch of you can successfully create something IC about it, then maybe it would warrant time being put into making a better system for businesses.
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PostSubject: Re: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:36 am

[Insert witty banter here about what a devil's advocate twice over is.]

To your first point, as Takeo mentioned, we have never restricted what people want to rp so long as it is within reason. Ganki, in this case, is a perfect example; his character is basically defined by his connection to a business. You mistake my want to avoid a complex system for wanting to preclude the idea of businesses altogether, that is not the case. Rather I am of the opinion that players should be allowed a certain latitude to make their vision a reality—hopefully, most people here would agree that is what makes rping fun. However, speaking from experience, the businesses system as it now stands was only ever made on the urging of a few select people, so I couldn't say there was all that much demand.

In fact, I'd advocate an entirely ic based business concept where one simply buys the item(s) they wish to sell and does the sale ic. This would actually force people to meet with and create bonds while also accomplishing the goal of making sales and getting 'phat stacks'. In general, we should avoid ooc sales by businesses as much as possible.

Now, if I could defend my first three points...

Reason one: See reason three explanation.

Reason two: We'll have to agree to disagree on this one as anything more I said would be a reiteration of what I've already said and would devolve into a "I'm right you're wrong scenario." Suffice to say I have seen it happen plenty of times that newer people (and even some hardened vets) get confused by our systems as they are.

Reason three: Okay, here is where I drop some hard truths. Staff isn't perfect and creating systems takes time with the job usually falling to one person (speaking from my experience, I can't comment on the current state of staff.). The result is broken things take a while to be fixed if they are fixed at all. After all, staff members are volunteers and we love them for the work they do, but it does take time and time spent on, forgive me here, less critical systems would probably be better spent on working on more pressing matters.

Please don't kill me, fam.


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PostSubject: Re: A Curious Idea on making Businesses useful    Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:38 am

I want to make $$$$ that dollar on souls who want versitile stuff. But i see your point.


"How to nake this better?" Well just like buisness it not sonething one system can fix. So If you want something why not make it? This is commonly the case of what happens. Its just like weapons, jutsu, skills.

Everyone want something their own. And assumes something fits better if its their own thing. Well by opening up something to everyone makes it universal. The real thing however many people would rather avoid is the "ah i must pay you X ammount IC..." 

Now you might ask what does this partake with all of this?. Well let me explain.


[size=30]IC you can manipulate the prices.  If you rp it well enough allow you to actually barter, bargain reduce price for said person. You being the creator determines who and how something can be bought.[/size]


Heck you can if you want require dark deeds such as assasinations or such. After showing a person how the item works being the creator. 


This can all be done at a simple expense of buisness upkeeping and such. Versus an attempt to try to give more benifits. If a person wants char exclusive items and wanba pay thousands of ryo for it. Kudos. But if one wants to explore and even take risks for such things wether expenses, to health, to honor, sanity even. They can take to various PC vendors.


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